Heavy weighters vs light weighters - pro and contra

A new member of our group, Tatyana, recently told me that she was going to buy her "first real backpack". Of course, I could not help myself not to give her an unsolicited advice :) - recommending the thing I have - the Vapor Trail. She ended up getting a Gregory Deva 60 from REI. I checked its specs and the first thing I see is that this pack weights 5+ pounds (even an XS version!) while its volume is about the same (3600 cu. in.) as of Vapor Trail's. Well, my first thought to myself was that Tatyana will be ready to change her pack after the first trip when she learns that in the mountains every ounce (not to mention every pound) counts!

I know that quite a bit of people in our group changed their 5-6 pound packs to something much lighter. To myself, it's quite obvious - the lighter the better. I would go as low as possible as long as it's not too expensive (I did not have guts to pay twice as much for my sleeping bag to save one pound of weight). But may be with the backpacks there is something else I am missing here - an advanced suspension system, super comfortable frame, number of pockets? What else makes people to carry those extra 3 to 4 pounds just in the weight of their backpacks themselves?

Anyone to defend 5+ pound backpacks here and share their thought on this issue in general?

Cheers,
Brer Moutain Rabbit

The old saying " Hike Your Own Hike " comes to mind, as it also relates to a " buy your own gear" and " make your own mistakes" as you learn backpacking.
A lot depends on the physical abilities of the person. I'm short stocky muscular, built like a bull, so I can carry much more weight, than a person built like an antelope. That would be a personal decison I'd have to make when I planned a trip,,, an overnighter versus a week hike plan... or similar scenario.
I've tried three packs in the past 18 months... and for some crazy reason I keep coming back to my orginal " no-name", 5 pounder, with lots of pockets, waterproof, etc. that cost me like $60 . lol It was my first pack, and we made my first 140 mile Alabama Pinhoti hike together.
I started out backpacking on the " Cheap ".... I wasn't sure I'd like it. Since then, I've managed to learn a few things, and have bought items I thought fit my hiking style better. I'm sure I'll keep learning and continue to lighten my load.
What I have observed in this hobby, is what I personally don't want other newbee's to do. There are countless newbee's starting the AT... or backpacking... as ultralighter's... with $1000's invested in hiking equipment.
What's the percentage of AT hikers that quit by the time they get to NC... 80%? 70%..... and all that expensive gear goes home into a closet... probably never to be used again. I would much rather see someone lose interest in this hobby, without losing a lot of money.
There's much more to backpacking than the equipment you carry and we have all learned that over time. Send a newbee out on the Pinhoti, the BMT...somewhere alone for a week so they can see, its not all fun & games. Then, if they still like the idea, help them spend a month's wages on gear. <G>
Just the rambling thoughts of an old man.....

" MoBill "

I had backpacked for years with a monster Kelty backpack weighing in at nearly 7 pounds empty. On one Atlanta Backpackers Meetup I went up the side of Panther Creek falls with Dmitry and Bobby Hart, among others. It was absolutely punishing. At the end of the trip Bobby weighed everyone's pack with a fish scale and I came in at least ten pounds heavier than anyone else in the group. I came home that night, got in the internet and ordered a GoLite Pinnacle, and put the Kelty up on Craigslist. What a difference! Instantly shed 6 pounds and it's much more enjoyable. It's light enough to double as a daypack and easily carries anything you'd need for a weekend. Skip the frills and go as light as you can without sacrificing safety and you'll enjoy your trip much more.

I can't defend the extra 5-6 pound packs. I dumped mine a few years back and went with a Golite Trek and never looked back. My Trek which is an earlier model of the Pinnacle weighs in at two pounds! There were some sacrifices made to get it down this low. There's no frame and the suspension belts have very very little padding. With that said, I was amazed at how comfortable it feels, especially when you keep your weight in the 25-pound range.

I feel like the heavier packs were designed to be comfortable carrying heavier loads....or big loads of extra gear and equipment that salesperson gets you to buy. :)

Unless you are mountaineering, no one needs a pack that heavy. Fortunately, since she bought it at REI, she can take it back for a refund.

I think there are a few reasons why newbies end up initially getting heavy gear. First, they think bp'ing is much more complicated than it really is. They want to be "safe" and "comfortable" without understanding that heavy gear actually works against you in that regard. You need to work with your body and nature, not against them. Secondly, the sales people at REI don't seem to be very knowledgeable about lighter weight options and REI doesn't sell that kind of stuff (although they have been improving over the past few years). People don't do their own research and rely too much on what the sales people tell them (newbies just don't know any better).

Even on multi-night winter trips this year I had my weight under 20 pounds, including food and water.

But don't worry, after a few trips with that pack and looking at the other lighter weight options other people are using, she'll come around

So far my GoLite Pinnacle is ok for me at 1.5 lbs. It is basic but without any real padding so you should keep the loads at least under 30 lbs., and under 25lbs is even better. It was not cheap - about $130.00. You don't see these real lite packs in REI much. I work real hard to keep my pack under 22 lbs. and am glad the drought is over since we won't have to carry too much water which is a killer.

Wild Bill

...the sales people at REI don't seem to be very knowledgeable...

When I was choosing a backpack at REI several years ago, the salesman was telling me that in his opinion the Vapor Trail was more of a day hike backpack! Technically, he was correct as he also was saying "it depends on how much gear you'll need". So far the longest trip I had with my Vapor Trail (and ever) was a 4 full day trip on Georgia Loop, and it worked fine. But again, someone might load it full for a day hike trip, especially if that person is transferring from car camping (no offense to those who actually are! )

hike your own hike, buy your own gear, and make your own mistakes . . . I like that mantra . . . and it applies to anything I'd want to say about backpacks.

I'm speaking as someone who gave up a 6.5lb backpack (Dana's K2) for a 2.5lb REI ultralight, saving 4 lbs on the backpack alone . . .

the Dana K2 has a suspension to die for . . . I've never worn a more comfortable external frame backpack and I don't intend to sell the pack . . . it's a good pack for heavy loads, when heavy loads are unavoidable . . . eg., I suspect if I get involved volunteering for trail maintenance and relocation, the back pack will serve a good purpose carrying tools + gear . . .

but for week-end recreational hiking and long distance recreational hiking, I see the REI ultralight as, well, a life saver . . . I hiked 13 miles down to Hot Springs with John one day, arriving around 2 or 3 pm, if I recall correctly, leaving plenty of time for another 2 - 4 miles that day; I was still a smoker back then.

I've quit smoking, dropped weight on both my body and in my back pack and it makes a huge difference in how much I enjoy my hike and how far I can hike and how well I feel at the end of the day, at camp and back at the car.

While I have a light backpack, and consider myself a lightweight hiker, I can think of a few reasons why someone may have a heavier backpack.

The first reason is that they may be on a budget; more inexpensive items generally weigh more than than their more expensive counterparts. I started out with cheap gear that was heavy, and upgraded a piece at a time until I'm where I am now. It's from my experience that you pay more to get less when buying backpacking gear (because of high-tech materials, etc.), which seems to contradict the regular logic of getting more if you're paying more (bags of topsoil, etc.).

However, the second reason follows that regular logic: to get the best suspension systems or other non-essential features, it's frequently unavoidable to add weight (even though you're paying more: think arcteryx). But if that suspension system makes you're hike more enjoyable, than so be it.

The other few reasons I can think of off-hand I think have already been mentioned, but include: a backpack for mountaineering that serves double-duty as a warm-season pack. Also, a heavy-duty pack that can take a beating can often be worth their weight (but maybe not in gold). I once fell down the side of a mountain in a Kelty and we both took a beating - I know if I had fallen in my Quick UL, it very well may not have made it. It's a light pack, but by no means rugged. Also, if you're starting out, you're often carrying more weight than a seasoned backpacker, in which case a larger/heavier pack may actually help even after adding it's 5 extra pounds.

I kinda think of packs in a similar way that I do hiking shoes. If I'm going out light, for a quick overnighter or something, a good pair of sneakers will do the trick. However, if I'm planning a week-long trip through the snow, I'll want certain features for those circumstances (i.e., insulation/waterproofing) and for them to give me more support to help ease the extra weight. Those winter boots are going to weigh more than the sneakers, but it's weight well spent. Same thing with packs.

I have a winter pack and a summer pack, and now that I think about it, I have almost two of everything, one for summer, one for winter...

My $.02,

Phillip

My first pack was an Osprey Crescent 70 at just under 7 lbs. It was quickly replaced with a Granite Gear Nimbus Meridian at 3.5 lbs. That one was replaced with a ULA Conduit at around 1.25 lbs which is my current go-to pack for most trips. For shorter trips I'm about to buy another pack at under .5 lb. The more trips I go on with other ultralighters the more weight I shed. At this point I'm getting to where lighter options than what I use sacrifice too much comfort. I do believe some heavier packs (4ish lbs) have their place on long trips without resupply. When you need to carry 30 days of food even with an ultralight base you're pushing 50 lbs and will need a pack made to carry that kind of weight. On my BPL instructor trip in Montana no one carried over 18 lbs or so and we were out for 4 nights while covering 70+ miles in a blizzard.